sturmey archer 8 hub

edited August 2012 in Rover
My S/A 8 ate itself after only 1200 miles :( replacement won't be here until next Thursday. No riding for me this weekend. :cry:

Comments

  • rainriding wrote:
    My S/A 8 ate itself after only 1200 miles :( replacement won't be here until next Thursday. No riding for me this weekend. :cry:
    Rain, are you getting it on a warranty replacement? I've been thinking.. when ours wears out or breaks, I'll upgrade to a different hub. I guess that would change if the warranty would give me back an SA-8 for free.
  • Wilhelm, yes I am getting it on warranty replacement, otherwise I would replace it with something else. I am contemplating getting a Tour 2 and keep my Rover as a backup. My trike is my primary mode of transportation as well as my primary source of entertainment.
  • Just a tip: If you climb hills, you may want to stay with the Sturmey Archer X-RF8 (W) , it has a 25T
    sprocket and the cost would be much less then half the price of a Nexus premium 8 speed.
    A new Sturmey Archer can be had for $250 bucks
    complete with Wheel, shifter, cable ect.
    Happy Trikings !
  • TriKings wrote:
    Just a tip: If you climb hills, you may want to stay with the Sturmey Archer X-RF8 (W) , it has a 25T
    sprocket and the cost would be much less then half the price of a Nexus premium 8 speed.
    "If you climb hills." Now that's a new one for me, Tri. Can you tell us more?

    Elsewhere I've read that the SA8 only has such a large sproket because it's the only major hub that has Gear 1 as its straight through gear, with all the other gears as Overdrives; whereas other IGHs have the straight through gear somewhere near mid-range, with both Underdrive and Overdrive gears. I don't know how that makes the SA8 better for hill climbing, given the absolute ratio of crank- to wheel-speeds are similar. What would make the SA8 better for hills?

    Actually, TriKing, you're about the only one I've read offer any cheer for the standard SA8 hub. It seems to be the single item most would wish was better on their OEM Rover.
  • rainriding wrote:
    My S/A 8 ate itself
    How does that happen? ::No, No:: It's an honest question. :)
    I've read lots of criticisms of the OEM hub on the Rover. I even have my own. :)
    But I've never read what happens when they fail. What are the typical causes of failure? How can one tell one is going bad?

    I know shifting while cranking is a big NO-NO. And I can't imagine TerraTrike waranty replacing hubs that are ruined that way. So -- for a qualified warranty replacement -- what goes wrong with them and how can you tell it's something not caused by the forced shifting. Just asking.
  • @Wilhelm, Where I ride, there is no such thing as flat and the up and downs are very, very steep. The first indication of failure was the hub "slipping" when riding up hills. It felt similar to a loose chain skipping teeth. Next, 3,5,7,8 would skip while pedaling an feel like they were binding, similar to when he shifter is out of adjustment. the final symptom before catastrophic failure was that I couldn't shift into 1st through 4th. I was told by my LBS that it was a common problem for riders who are my size who do a lot of hill climbing. I am just north of 300lbs, which is better than the 380 lbs I was last October when I started riding my Rover. I have a thing about hill climbs. I love them. I am hoping to do the Mt. Baker hill climb this September.
  • Hi: again
    I do not cheer the SA8 but I do like it better then the Nexus 8 for hill climing and for that reason ONLY. ;) All I know about gears, is the smaller the front chainring and larger the rear spocket, the better low end gear = easier hill climbing for the engine and the larger the front chainring and smaller the rear sprocket = the faster the engine can go.
    Captainbob loves his SA 8 with over 4000 miles on it and Peter C liked his, until they both leaked
    on him :lol:
    Happy Trikings !
  • @Triking,

    Thanks for the heads up. As long as S/A will continue to provide warranty replacement, I will stick with them. However, in addition to gearing for climbing, reliability is also important.
  • TriKings wrote:
    All I know about gears, is the smaller the front chainring and larger the rear spocket, the better low end gear = easier hill climbing for the engine and the larger the front chainring and smaller the rear sprocket = the faster the engine can go.
    All true enough, except this ignores the imput of the hub itself in the power transmission equation.
    The power transmission dynamic is not crank: front sproket: rear sproket: wheel.
    It is crank: front sproket: rear sproket: hub: wheel.
    The one you've missed is where this all started, with the hub.

    So that.. having more teeth on a larger rear sproket does not necessarily mean the setup has more hill climbing ability. If all the additional torque produced a larger rear sproket is dissipated by taller gearing in the hub, then the net effect might be neutralized. A larger rear sproket doesn't necessarily mean more climbing power in the sproket-hub combination.

    And if gears 2-8 in the SA hub are all overdrive gears, that implies the hub does have taller internal gearing -- that renders the large rear sproket rather mute to this discussion. If the effect of the larger sprocket is mostly offset by the taller gearing of the hub itself, then the SA8 combination may or may not be a better hill climber than other combinations.

    Now, the SA8/large sproket combination may in fact deliver more torque to the wheel than other hubs with their companion sprokets. But not just because the SA8 has the larger sproket. That's my point, I guess.
  • $himano parts, like cogs in sizes from 16-22, are pretty easy to find. Probably easier to find than SA parts (at least in the USofA)
    http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-SG-7C20-N ... B001GSMSL4

    But it's true that there is more to it than just the cog size. The Nexus or Alfine or whatever they're calling this year has much lower gearing than the SA 8, as has been noted earlier in this thread.

    The late, great Sheldon Brown is the most authoritative source with data from multiple manufacturers:
    http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/internal.html
    and his above referenced calculator is so easy to use.

    FWIW I have the Nexus, it was more a matter of availability than reliability at the time I made the purchase. But I'm pretty happy with my set up.
  • Well, the replacement came in and my rover is back on the road again. I am a happy camper. Looking forward to an all day ride tomorrow and one on Sunday. Whatcom county tomorrow and Skagit county on Sunday.
  • It's true, I'd had zero issues with my SA hub(s), other than seal leaks. Because of my paranoia, after the second hub started leaking, I switched to a NuVinci N360 IGH. I now have roughly 500 miles on the N360 and I really enjoy it. I am actually faster with the N360 than with the SA hub (my gear inch range was almost the same with both hubs) - with the SA hub the jump from 7th to 8th was just too much of a jump for me to do and keep pedaling without having to drop back to 7th. But with the N360, the ability to split gears and dial it in perfectly for the speed and level of the path is just too awesome for me to consider using anything else.

    Just something to think about.
    ---
    Peter_C
    TerraTrike Rover W/N360 by NuVinci
    http://s1103.photobucket.com/albums/g475/Peter_CC/Peter_C Trike Album/
    
    (copy and paste into your browser) to see ---> My Trike Photos
    ---
  • I had some rather loud clicking and clacking from the back of my bike while pushing up my last hill on Saturday. I can't guarantee it was the hub doing this... but it sure sounded like it!
  • Did you check to see if it was adjusted right? The yellow dot should be in the middle of the "window" when in 4th gear. I seem to adjust mine every couple of rides. I also don't have a yellow dot on mine, just a thin black bar, but it shifts, so I haven't worried about it.
  • Just put a nuvinci on my rover... will never do anything else. I would recommend it if you can swing it.
  • VooDooCC wrote:
    I also don't have a yellow dot on mine, just a thin black bar, but it shifts..
    Thanks for being The First on this forum to say that. I was thinking mine was the only one that didn't get the dab of yellow paint it was supposed to. Actually, fortune didn't even give me the thin black bar you have. Just several scratchings with no discernible pattern whatsoever. It is 100% guess, trial and error to get mine tuned in. Then pleading with the dealer mechanic not to even think of touching that adjustment when he has it in the shop, so you don't have to start all over with the adjustment game when you get it home to ride.
  • I would go nuts without that line, figure out a way to get a drop of paint or something in there. I wonder who decides to put the mark. I have the thin black line, you have nothing, someone else has 2 dots.
  • Yeah, we've both been cheated!
  • The SA8 enables TT to offer an 8 speed Rover at a magic price point below 1k. That introduces a paradox: it can work fairly well ridden by a skilled cyclist; pausing pedaling to shift on a hill while maintaining momentum becomes a frustrating experience for the unskilled. Alas, skilled cyclists seldom are those who ride Rovers.

    As senior geezer whose cycling skills are inevitably degrading I bought my new Rover with a NuVinci hub. If you ever ride one you'll never use an SA8 again.

    TT could still offer the SA8 to keep the price point, but expand the options to include the NuVinci. Possibly they don't want price overlap to make a Rover/Rambler decision difficult. But there's a real difference between a sealed hub and a derailler at the same price!
  •   Interesting...
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