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Electric assist conversion begins

SouthboundSouthbound
edited October 2017 in General Discussions
The BBSHD kit arrived Saturday from LunaCycle. I delivered the motor/battery kit along with our Rover Tandem to Velocity Pro Cycle today. I'll drop in on Adam and Brad tomorrow to learn which wiring harnesses are short ... it's a long way from the battery rack at rear tire to the new motor hanging out in space in front of the single chain wheel. So, no rides for a few days. We'll see how this goes :-)

Comments

  • squirrelpie0squirrelpie0
    edited October 2017
    Instead of putting the battery at the back, look at putting it behind the pilot seat. Wont have the current loss that way. Just a suggestion. Look at mine here: www.bentonabudget.blogspot.com
  • TrikeBirderTrikeBirder
    I put a BBSHD on my 2014 Rover last winter and am loving it! I'm confident that you will love yours too. I did it with the idea of converting the Rover to a tandem once I purchase a new folding and suspension trike to replace it. I tend to have a lot of brand loyalty and hope I can wait for TerraTrike to offer such a trike. But I digress.

    I am extremely interested in your project. I would like to know what sort of hub/gearing you have. My Rover is equipped with a Shimano Nexus 8 speed. I am contemplating purchasing a NuVinci N380 along with Efneo's GTRO 3-speed front gearbox. I think this would be an ideal setup for a TT Rover tandem.

    I fabricated a hardened aluminum mounting plate to allow one or two batteries and mounted this on the frame under the pilot seat. The batteries mount on the underside of this plate. This keeps the batteries This works OK for me, but my current setup requires me to remove the batteries for charging. Even though I can quickly do the R&R, I wish I had waited for TT to release their under-seat rack which would allow for charging while trike mounted. Unfortunately, TT never announced the rack until it was actually released. I believe you would do well by following the suggestion made by squirrelpie0. And you should check out TT's Low Rider Rack on page 3 of the accessories page. While a bit pricey ($90), I have test ridden a TT so equipped, and immediately suffered rack envy.

    Best of luck with your Bafang installation. If I can be of any assistance, I am glad to help.
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    Thanks both. Tech at Velocity Pro Cycle is also a retired engineer so we communicate! He suggested mounting the battery on the frame in front of front seat. I did buy the Low Rider rack and planned on mounting battery there.
    I'm going to be interested in weight distribution.
    I rarely ride single on the Rover Tandem but rear wheel traction in lower gear ranges is an issue in gravel. I intend to take loaded and unloaded weight per wheel readings when it's complete ... or is it ever complete?
    I sure understand the current loss with battery at rear and appreciate that point.
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    Under seat rack? I've missed that!
  • squirrelpie0squirrelpie0
    On my Rover placing the battery behind the front seat distributed the weight of the BBSO2 installation nearly equally. Granted different on a tandem. Behind seat, out of way.
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    edited October 2017
    Anybody have a notion about placement of the LCD Display for BBSHD? Bike shop wants to mount on the boom ahead of the pilot seat because the mount doesn't fit the handlebars. I was thinking there were some adapter rings in the bucketful of extra doodads Luna shipped. The question is, "Do I just refer to the display for info or am I inputting and fiddling with it whilst riding?"

    Thanks for input on battery location. I'm going to stop in at the bike shop this morning and bless the component locations before they're tightened up ... some may be moved around later. I don't have enough experience on board (and certainly not with e-assist to take a strong position). We're adding about 33 pounds of gear so it could matter, I guess. On the other hand, we go "low and slow" most of the time.

    I'm determined not to stress the details too much and I'm a bit caught off guard this has moved so quickly. The wait for additional cable will slow it down.
  • JamesRJamesR
    sounds like the lbs is new to this stuff. check out http://t-cycle.com/-c-71/
  • squirrelpie0squirrelpie0
    Mine located on left steering arm. Only have a short cord from lcd to control pad. Used an adapter I got someplace. Memory? Take a look at picts on my blog. Www.bentonabudget.blogspot.com
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    edited October 2017
    Thanks! You are correct JamesR. There are about 2 trikes in town ...
    Will get both these to tech by morning.

    Update: Ordered cable extensions today from Luna, got confirmation tonight that all were shipped. They do NOT offer expedited delivery. Imagine ordering from Amazon and being told it has to come by Post Office or UPS ground! Only complaint with Luna so far.
  • Jrobiso2Jrobiso2
    Amazon IS using the post office these days, but still meeting their Prime 2-day delivery schedule.
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    JamesR, found double end cockpit clamp at TerraCycle and ordered today. They called TWICE ... and shipped today! Jrobiso2, the second call was to suggest USPS 1st Class instead of UPS ground. Thought it would save several days. I've had some terrific service from them, Luna, and TerraTrike as we determine our needs by discovery not planning :-)
    On a side note, the tech and his strong legged assistant took the Rover Tandem for a spin and got it up to estimated 30 mph. My high on a long descent is about 18 :-) All their cusstomers are taken by it ... not many recumbent tandems around here.
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    All the cable extensions arrived from Luna today. Hopefully putting the trike on the road Friday. 79 degrees expected this weekend. On the other hand, we have LSU football in town Saturday ... the roads may not be safe.
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    Shop guys took tandem out for a trial run today. All impressed with performance but there's a glitch they think is a faulty wiring harness. Getting the specifics then taking up with Luna. Otherwise, tightening, adding rack, figuring how to get left mirror back. Should be ready to go Friday. 79 degrees Saturday.
    So strange NOT to be doing this myself.
  • squirrelpie0squirrelpie0
    edited November 2017
    Battery connector intermittent? Clips in battery adjust, beND to grip prongs on cord to motor? Cover w vaseline. Drove me crazy until diagnosed. Also used straps w velcro to GUARANTEE battery cannot wiggle in quick release base
    Heavy enough wire from batt to motor?

  • SouthboundSouthbound
    Good suggestions, thank you. I was there briefly and don't have details of the complication yet as we mostly were concentrating on the positives. Interesting that every employee was smiling. The owner came, smiled and said, It will fly! He showed me test ride video from stoker seat and they were passing cars downtown. That's fine ... I just want to pull steep hills ... We've got'em.
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    Not my best photography but it's here. Took a quick 2 block ride to see if I could get up the drive ... Pretty amazing.
    Still corresponding with Luna about the bug in the throttle but hope to have replacements in a week.
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    Notes from first ride:
    I got an Error 21, speed sensor fault. The sensor may have been bumped in transport to home in spite of my efforts. We'll need to recheck adjustments there.

    The battery went from 50% (probably should have charged last night) to an apparent zero on the display in less than 6 miles BUT it still pulled up my driveway. Installed charger, set charger for 80%, immediately got 38% reading on the motor display ?? Charger didn't stop at 80% so I disconnected when it displayed 100%. Display dropped to 93% without the charger. May have issue with charger and/or display.

    With motor at bottom setting of 1 and in first gear, the trike sailed along comfortably. I could not shift up past 6th so I wonder if 1st gear on the indicator was actually 3rd. We'll need to adjust shift cable. Techs got it up to 29 mph on test ride ... i have no interest in that :-) The five hills on this morning's ride were non-events. Just cruised right on up.

    The larger chain ring and/or the possibility of the shift indicator being off made starting without the motor on difficult. I'm planning on using 0 setting at least some of the time.

    The new harness should ship next week. They are shipping USPS 1st class so should be in quickly. It could have to do with battery and speed I guess. After we reset that and another ride or two, I'll take up speed fault, battery and charger with Luna if needed.

    I'll want to mount the accessory rack and install the clipless pedals on next visit. Those cable heel retainers are awful and going back.

    Low Rider rack from TT looks good and is definitely low. Will probably move battery back there on 2nd set of tweaks. Will need to find or make cable extension from motor to battery.

    Velocity Pro Cycle gave me a terrific deal on the installation. The owner said he reduced his labor rate and both the techs worked on it off the clock some. I could tell they were really into this project. Everybody in town knows my wife's story so that may have played a part. At any rate, I'm grateful.
  • Jrobiso2Jrobiso2
    When you're all done can you post a complete list of hardware and the costs? I'd like to do something like this to my 2016 Rover.
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    Sure will [b]Jrobiso2 [/b]. Working it up now.
  • IdahoTrailLizardIdahoTrailLizard
    edited November 2017
    Colder weather reduces battery capacity, and more so as the colder temperatures persist. Once the battery gets warmer (indoors) the battery capacity comes back to normal. Depending, of course, on what metal/chemical type of batteries you have.

    You could create an insulated cover to perhaps keep the battery warmer. Nice ride BTW.

    ¬ ITL
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    Due to the weather, some minor health issues, and a complicated real estate transaction, I haven't updated in some time. We have had a lot of fun with short rides between rain showers and cold waves. I'm way behind tweaking the set up BUT did a quick ride yesterday solo with the new 30T chainwheel.

    Well, I probably overcompensated. Stock on the Rover is a 32T I think ... I was encouraged to use the 42T with the Bafang upgrade. It made sense. If you have the power then go for speed. However, to have the ability to maneuver in a tight area required essentially shutting the motor down ... then you have to reboot for a few moments. With only a power setting of "1" I couldn't feel the pedals below gear setting of 5. :-)

    The 30T is great for creeping but when cruising any gear below is 8 is just spinning the pedals. I did see a 24.6 mph with power setting of 9 and 8th gear on a long, gradual incline. I'll be perfectly happy between 10 and 15 mph when we get it right. I'm in this for exercise.

    While I'm looking at my chainwheel options, I am working on the list of upgrades to this used Rover Tandem acquired last year. For someone else planning a conversion, the weird thing is that you have to get the kit in, lay it out, and THEN decide which components need cable extensions and what lengths to obtain. Luna is in the DIY business as there are so many possibilities of bikes and trikes on which their products could be installed. The don't even attempt to recommend extensions with the kit. I'll try to address that for at least the Rover Tandem later.

    In the meantime, we changed out one cable solving a speedometer error. Yesterday was the first time I've had a notion of speed other that what RunKeeper reports. Earlier it suggested we hit 40 mph on a downhill. Maybe. I doubt it.

    I've added more lights front and back, TT cushions in both seats, SPD pedals in front, the low rider rack, velcro brake straps, pants clips, a TT bell, and a TT water bottle angled bracket. Will probably add reflective tape per this forum and another flag. One on right at captains seat and one at left of stoker's, giving some dimension from front or side. Working on modifying my trailer a bit for easier loading. Didn't mean to blog!
  • squirrelpie0squirrelpie0
    edited January 10
    I have the 48 T on a Rover and it is fine but I set the controller for 10 settings and reduced the 1-5 settings to space the speed ranges in there closer together. Custom programming the settings is not difficult but understanding what to change is difficult. After nearly a year, I'm not sure have the perfect settings yet. May change again next summer.

    On level asphalt trails here in PCB, FL, I generally run 18-20 kph which is 6th gear w my 24 in rear wheel. I occasionally drop to G2, but rarely. AGAIN ON RARE OCCASSION, I WILL push it harder up to 30 kph in 8th, but find that too rough and a power eater
  • TrikeBirderTrikeBirder
    Just wondering if you know of any ratio concern between the Bafang front chainring (46t stock) and the rear cog that need to be heeded?
  • squirrelpie0squirrelpie0
    Don't think so. Probably want to run in the middle of your cassette from a wear standpoint. 5th is 17th for me and like to start in 4th 20T, or 3rd 23T for hilly , both usually with a bump on throttle. Just replaced chain,derailleur, and cassette because of wear. 5,4 were severe. 6th some wear. 7 8 were fine. Chain was toast
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    Probably need to investigate. I've had what I thought was chain slip under previous set up (stock). Wondered if my internal was wearing out. Very smooth most of the time though.
  • XrayXray
    edited January 25
    I've had a BBS02 on our tandem trike, an Organic Engines Troika. We did 2000 miles last summer with it. We used a 36 tooth sprocket with an 11-32 8 speed on a 20" wheel. Top speed was in the low 20's but we had all the power we needed for any hill.
  • SouthboundSouthbound
    Xray wrote: »
    I've had a BBS02 on our tandem trike, an Organic Engines Troika. We did 2000 miles last summer with it. We used a 36 tooth sprocket with an 11-32 8 speed on a 20" wheel. Top speed was in the low 20's but we had all the power we needed for any hill.

    Thanks! The 36T is about mid-point between the two chain wheels I've tried ... and probably where I'm heading next :-)
  • bfarmsbobbfarmsbob
    I have a rover tandem with an internal 8 and IPS and am considering getting a BBS02 or BBSHD as well. I am not as technically proficient on bikes as you guys so I have what you might consider a dumb question but here goes anyway: to keep the stoker and the front seat contributing equally, after the mid drive mod, doesn't the sprocket up front need to be the same as the original set up? Also did you install the gear change sensor? Finally, do you have an internal 8 and has the addition of the mid drive had any negative impact on it...thanks
  • squirrelpie0squirrelpie0
    Need the gear sensor for safety ot the IGH otherwise danger of crunchy
  • Elrique64Elrique64
    For any mid-drive motors, I would use the right gear sensor for your setup for any hub, other than the NuVinci. This is the only hub that doesn't require you to unload the chain in order to shift. Use the IGH designated sensor for any IGH gearing.

    For an external drivetrain I would use the sensor for externals.

    Either of these sensors are going to save you wear and tear on the chain, sprockets and other components. They can mean the difference between trouble free riding, or having to load your trike on a trailer or pickup for the ride home.

    FYI, I ran without this sensor for the first year or so I had the motor on eFreedom. I didn't think I needed it. I thought it was a waste of money, or a splurge, or what have you.... Now, it's what I consider as important to a mid-drive system for ebiking/etriking as the battery itself.

    The IPS system is going to introduce some variables I haven't experienced.
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