Seat Slipping Fixed

edited November 2011 in Rover
I have come up with a fix for my Rover seat slipping back and tearing up the paint.

It is made from two packs of four 3 x 5/8 inch Mending Braces from Ace Hardware # 5292107.
I have used three plates on top and three on the bottom. I did have to drill clean 1\4 holes.
The plates are held in place with two 3" x 1/4" bolts that I really tighten down on the main bar.

I have uploaded 5 photos to PhotoBucket that should help see what I have done.
http://s1137.photobucket.com/albums/n51 ... erSeatFix/

TerraTrike saw no reason why this would cause any problems.
It has solved the problem for me.

Lynn - TomBent
Tombent - My Rover
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Comments

  • looks Great!!!!!
  • Sweet~! And no frame-drilling~!

    My only thought? I didn't see any lock-washers, or lock-nuts? I'm wondering if they may work loose down the road due to vibration? It looks like there is enough thread to add a couple of lock-washers...

    Just a thought?
    ---
    Peter_C
    TerraTrike Rover W/N360 by NuVinci
    http://s1103.photobucket.com/albums/g475/Peter_CC/Peter_C Trike Album/
    
    (copy and paste into your browser) to see ---> My Trike Photos
    ---
  • I did use the compression type bolts like TT uses on their bolts.
    So far they are holding tight.
    Tombent - My Rover
  • I resolved my slipping by replacing the factory Terratrike bolt and locking cam mechanism with a stainless bolt and locking nut. After torquing it down, it has been nearly 3 weeks without slippage.
    8000 miles and counting...
  • Thanks for the post, that might be the solution to my seat slipping problem.
  • I have just noticed that mine has crept back (at an angle too) about 3/4 of an inch - plus the little black tabs are messed up (are they important??). I have only moved my seat once since buying my Rover, and I can only think it has to do with me pushing really hard on some hills. I paid attention to how tight I set it with the stock clamp, and marked the frame, I'll see if it moves.

    If it does, seems like the simplest way is by getting some stainless steel bolts and replace the quick release? It's a feature I do not need, so no loss there. What do you do, how tight do you tighten it? Torque SPECs??
    ---
    Peter_C
    TerraTrike Rover W/N360 by NuVinci
    http://s1103.photobucket.com/albums/g475/Peter_CC/Peter_C Trike Album/
    
    (copy and paste into your browser) to see ---> My Trike Photos
    ---
  • Peter_C wrote:
    I have just noticed that mine has crept back (at an angle too) about 3/4 of an inch - plus the little black tabs are messed up (are they important??). I have only moved my seat once since buying my Rover, and I can only think it has to do with me pushing really hard on some hills. I paid attention to how tight I set it with the stock clamp, and marked the frame, I'll see if it moves.

    If it does, seems like the simplest way is by getting some stainless steel bolts and replace the quick release? It's a feature I do not need, so no loss there. What do you do, how tight do you tighten it? Torque SPECs??

    If you are talking about the black pieces that are glued to the inside of the seat clamp, they are replaceable and shown in the new video on seat clamp maintenance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV08DjaE ... ploademail
  • I agree with Peter. I ride on some bouncy roads and I think that will loosen up over time. I spent 10 years working as a machinist and my thought is to drill a 1/4" hole through the frame right behind the clamp and put a bolt through with lockwashers and a wingnut so that the seat clamp will not be able to slide back.
  • jstoner wrote:
    I agree with Peter. I ride on some bouncy roads and I think that will loosen up over time. I spent 10 years working as a machinist and my thought is to drill a 1/4" hole through the frame right behind the clamp and put a bolt through with lockwashers and a wingnut so that the seat clamp will not be able to slide back.

    I agree completely. The adhesive back friction pads are a joke. Eventually the force of pushing hard on the pedals causes the spacers to squeeze out (the glue is the weak link) and allows the seat to move back. The clamping system is not capable of preventing opposite force from eventually forcing the seat backwards. I noticed that TerraTrike is now showing a video stating that the friction pads are a wear item that will need to be replaced. That's a cop out, the clamping system is flawed. They need to come up with a real fix. Changing out their cam system with a stainless bolt and locking nut helped a lot but I do expect I will need to keep an eye on it and tighten as needed. As I mentioned earlier, if they wanted to keep an adjustable seat system, they should have gone with a ratcheting mechanism that locked the seat in position.
    8000 miles and counting...
  • One thing you are forgetting~!

    In order to stay within a price-point, balances must be kept. I am *not* complaining at all. Either the seat would have to be a 'fixed mount' - but then would not fit so many so easily, or, the cost would have to go up.

    I chose to upgrade my brakes to BB7s - not because the stock brakes are less than wonderful, but because I am a big guy, and I want as much stopping force as I can have.

    I chose to upgrade the pedals...

    I chose to upgrade the tires...

    And so on, and I'm not about to say that TT should have done this, or done that~! if the Rover came with BB7 brakes and Crank Brothers "Mallet 2" pedals, I could not have afforded to buy it.

    Is the seat slipping an issue, yes it is - should TT have done something better? It would have been nice, but consider, I bet more than half the Rover owners do not have this issue. So why raise the price and change it for folks when the bulk do not have the issue? PASS~!
    ---
    Peter_C
    TerraTrike Rover W/N360 by NuVinci
    http://s1103.photobucket.com/albums/g475/Peter_CC/Peter_C Trike Album/
    
    (copy and paste into your browser) to see ---> My Trike Photos
    ---
  • I replaced the glued on pads on the seat bracket a few months ago. They had slipped slightly out of position when I first got the Rover, but from then on they stayed the same. I had ordered some new pads, but never got around to putting them in until recently. I took the old pads off, cleaned the mount of all the remaining adhesive with alcohol, and put the new pads on as shown in the video. It does not slip at all at first , and the seat stays where I put it. I did make sure that I have the quick release as tight as it will go.

    Now that the new pads have been on for about a week, I see the seat has slipped forward a bit rather than backwards. I am going to keep and eye on it and see if it slips anymore. If it does, I think I will get some U bolts or something like the OP has and place them so that the seat cannot slip anymore, since I never adjust it anyway, once it is set.
  • I'm posting this info requested by Captain Bob in hopes that it helps others that are having difficulty in keeping their seat from slipping. This has worked well for me. If you are not going to be adjusting your seat a lot for different riders this solution seems to work well. I replaced my original seat bolt and locking cam mechanism with stainless fasteners. You will need a partially threaded 5/16" bolt, locking nut with nylon insert, and two washers. You will need to experiment on how much to torque the fastener to the point where there is no seat slippage. I would start at 20 ft. lbs. and increase torque through trial and error. The aluminum blocks that the bolt passes through are the weak link as far as over torquing, so use common sense.



    8000 miles and counting...
  • It's amazing how much good photos can help~! This is a great case of a picture is worth 1000 words. Thanks for that :)
    ---
    Peter_C
    TerraTrike Rover W/N360 by NuVinci
    http://s1103.photobucket.com/albums/g475/Peter_CC/Peter_C Trike Album/
    
    (copy and paste into your browser) to see ---> My Trike Photos
    ---
  • Your welcome Peter. I'd like to thank you and others here who recommended the Nashbar Ragster II shoes and the Shimano PD-M520L MTB Sport Pedals. They are great. I got them from Amazon on Friday. I went on a 22 miler Saturday and loved the way they held my feet securely in position. The sole of the Ragster is much more rigid compared to my new balance shoes which also helps foot stability. Since my feet are clipped into the pedals, I can pull as wells as push the pedals. My average top end speed has definitely benefited by this.

    :D
    8000 miles and counting...
  • KeinoDoggy wrote:
    Your welcome Peter. I'd like to thank you and others here who recommended the Nashbar Ragster II and the Shimano PD-M520L MTB Sport Pedals. They are great. I got them from Amazon on Friday. I went on a 22 miler Saturday and loved the way they held my feet securely in position. The sole of the Ragster is much more rigid compared to my new balance which also helps foot stability. Since my feet are clipped into the pedals, I can pull as wells as push the pedals. My average top end speed has definitely benefited by this.

    :D
    I think the Ragster 2's and the Shimano PD-520L's are the best bang for the buck. They keep your feet safely locked onto the pedals, will last forever, and are inexpensive. I have bought many pairs of expensive cycling shoes over the years, and the Ragster 2's are the most comfortable thing I have ever worn on my feet when cycling
  • I contacted one of the head tech support folks at Terratrike yesterday about the shims and seat slippage on the Rover. As a background, when I initially got my Rover last year, the seat was readjusted several times and I test rode it after adjusting, and didn't tighten down the quick release enough, causing the shims to start to slide out of position. I finally got the seat set correctly, tightened the QR down to a normal tension, and the seat stayed put for over 4,000 miles.

    Last month, I was doing some maintenance on the trike, and decided to replace the shims, that I had ordered last year, after the initial slippage, with the new shims I had. This time, after reading this thread, I decided to really tighten down the QR as tight as I could get it. Within about a week, I noticed that the seat clamp position had shifted slightly and the new shims were a bit out of position. So yesterday, I got the bolt and locknut that was recommended, to replace the QR, and torqued it down to about 20 ft pounds. As I was torquing it down, I noticed that the seat clamp, around the frame was starting to bow out, so that the sides of the clamp, where the shims are, aren't being held firmly against the frame due to the bowing. In contacting tech support regarding this, TS confirmed that if the bolt on the bottom of the clamp whether it be the quick release, or a substitute bolt, is tightened too much, it in fact causes the sides of the clamp to bow out, causing less pressure on the shims, and allowing the seat to shift out of position. In the 4,000 miles, I had the clamp tightened to a moderate position, I had no slippage. When I replaced the shims, and really tightened it down as tight as I possibly could, it started to shift.
  • My seat started slipping after 80 miles or so. I didn't pay much attention until my knees started to hurt and I realized I was suddenly at max leg extension during pedaling.

    Sure enough, the shims had slid out and the seat was back about two and three quarter inches. It wedged to a stop at the fourth frame bolt socket (new style Rover frame). Really tore up the paint job on the frame. (Doesn't bother me that much, I'm sitting on top of it). All the shims were still present so I peeled them off and repositioned them.

    Checked parts order per Cap'nBob and and instruction manual and added the mending plates DIY clamp also. I've put about 30 miles on it since and intend to measure the seat creep tomorrow. I know it hasn't shifted dramatically but I think it has some. If it has, I have devised a couple of other ideas to try.

    I really like the idea of the adjustable seat, but it does seem a weak point with us big fat guys.
  • We've got the same mess. Took the seats off to see what the problem is and found this mess
    http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u304/horao/
    I need to adjust my seat accordingly for the different shoes I wear so I really need it to work as intended. Need to find a fix for the marred paint.
    On The Monon
  • Captainbob wrote:
    I contacted one of the head tech support folks at Terratrike yesterday about the shims and seat slippage on the Rover. As a background, when I initially got my Rover last year, the seat was readjusted several times and I test rode it after adjusting, and didn't tighten down the quick release enough, causing the shims to start to slide out of position. I finally got the seat set correctly, tightened the QR down to a normal tension, and the seat stayed put for over 4,000 miles.

    Last month, I was doing some maintenance on the trike, and decided to replace the shims, that I had ordered last year, after the initial slippage, with the new shims I had. This time, after reading this thread, I decided to really tighten down the QR as tight as I could get it. Within about a week, I noticed that the seat clamp position had shifted slightly and the new shims were a bit out of position. So yesterday, I got the bolt and locknut that was recommended, to replace the QR, and torqued it down to about 20 ft pounds. As I was torquing it down, I noticed that the seat clamp, around the frame was starting to bow out, so that the sides of the clamp, where the shims are, aren't being held firmly against the frame due to the bowing. In contacting tech support regarding this, TS confirmed that if the bolt on the bottom of the clamp whether it be the quick release, or a substitute bolt, is tightened too much, it in fact causes the sides of the clamp to bow out, causing less pressure on the shims, and allowing the seat to shift out of position. In the 4,000 miles, I had the clamp tightened to a moderate position, I had no slippage. When I replaced the shims, and really tightened it down as tight as I possibly could, it started to shift.

    Odd... mine is not bowing at all. However I can say since I went to the bolt and locking nut I have had no slipping in several hundred miles. With the factory setup mine was constantly slipping. As I mentioned, I tried to used common sense when torquing the bolt and nut. Definitely do not torque any fastener to the point that something is bending out of shape.
    8000 miles and counting...
  • icingere wrote:
    We've got the same mess. Took the seats off to see what the problem is and found this mess
    http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u304/horao/
    I need to adjust my seat accordingly for the different shoes I wear so I really need it to work as intended. Need to find a fix for the marred paint.

    Your photos look exactly like what happened to my frame due to seat slippage. I still believe the single point lock down system is not adequate to contain the opposite force from peddling. Newton's Third Law states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. This means that any force exerted onto an object has a counterpart force that is exerted in the opposite direction back onto the first object.There is just not enough retention from the single lock down to prevent the power from some riders legs from pushing hard enough to move that seat out of place. I know I'm not able to leg press 750 lbs now as I did when I was a young man, but if one works hard to build their legs via their Rover, the force exerted to the pedals and therefore the seat clamp will increase.
    The design needs to be looked at and improved accordingly.
    8000 miles and counting...
  • Solution.jpg

    This was my solution to the seat slipping problem. I drilled a 1/4" hole and installed a capscrew bolt and wingnut. The seat stays put now.
    However, do not take lightly the task of drilling the frame, it is much harder metal than I expected, use low RPM and oil.
    When I bought the Rover I thought that I would be moving the seat frequently to share the trike with my wife. However she is not riding it at all so I felt that it was okay to leave it set for me.
  • We went with Tom's fix, because I'm squeamish about drilling into the frame. Glad you mentioned how hard it is in case I ever change my mind.
    On The Monon
  • You've got to be aware that drilling *any* hole in you frame will void the warranty. If you're OK with that, then rock on. I for one value the lifetime frame warranty, and plan to make sure not to void it.
    ---
    Peter_C
    TerraTrike Rover W/N360 by NuVinci
    http://s1103.photobucket.com/albums/g475/Peter_CC/Peter_C Trike Album/
    
    (copy and paste into your browser) to see ---> My Trike Photos
    ---
  • Peter_C wrote:
    You've got to be aware that drilling *any* hole in you frame will void the warranty. If you're OK with that, then rock on. I for one value the lifetime frame warranty, and plan to make sure not to void it.

    I'm with you. Not going to drill holes in the frame...
  • Do *I* think that drilling as shown above is going to hurt the frame? No, I don't. But, with my luck, if someone is gonna give me at no extra cost a solid and complete lifetime warranty, I'm gonna say thank you and then I'll protect it so I do not void it - as I care about warranties.
    ---
    Peter_C
    TerraTrike Rover W/N360 by NuVinci
    http://s1103.photobucket.com/albums/g475/Peter_CC/Peter_C Trike Album/
    
    (copy and paste into your browser) to see ---> My Trike Photos
    ---
  • I have to agree with KienoDoggy in the prior post. My wife and I both ride Rovers. My seat started slipping back right away and no mater how tight I tried to tighten it, it continued to slip back. I blamed my 300# on the problem. It also now pops and rocks side to side. The nylon pads are gone! Now my wife's Rover has the same problem and she only weighs 120#. I believe it is a flawed design. Nothing is worn, the pads just won't stay stuck in place. A different adhesive is required to solve the problem and the pads will be fine. Not a wear problem, but a design issue. Otherwise a great product!
  • Meon3 wrote:
    I have to agree with KienoDoggy in the prior post. My wife and I both ride Rovers. My seat started slipping back right away and no mater how tight I tried to tighten it, it continued to slip back. I blamed my 300# on the problem. It also now pops and rocks side to side. The nylon pads are gone! Now my wife's Rover has the same problem and she only weighs 120#. I believe it is a flawed design. Nothing is worn, the pads just won't stay stuck in place. A different adhesive is required to solve the problem and the pads will be fine. Not a wear problem, but a design issue. Otherwise a great product!

    Give Terratrike tech support a call. I think the "popping" and rocking side to side may be the 10mm oil lite bushings in the seat clamp have failed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV08DjaE ... e=youtu.be
  • I do think I mentioned this before and also Cap't Bob has, but you do NOT want to over tighten your seat clamp. This makes the U-shaped bracket bow out and it won't hold the seat in place. Hand tighten firmly, but do not really crank on it. That being said...

    "We have a newly designed seat clamp shim set for the Rover seat clamp. As you know, the pressure sensitive versions sometimes do not stay in place very well, especially in high heat locations. Also, if the seat clamp is over-tightened it creates point loads and does not allow the system to operate as designed. This can lead to slippage as well even in “low heat” geographic locations.

    The new design is a molded polypropelene version and will come as a set of four (2 for the sides, one for the top and one for the bottom wedge assembly of the seat clamp)."
    Kelli B
    Sales, TerraTrike
  • kellib wrote:
    I do think I mentioned this before and also Cap't Bob has, but you do NOT want to over tighten your seat clamp. This makes the U-shaped bracket bow out and it won't hold the seat in place. Hand tighten firmly, but do not really crank on it. That being said...

    "We have a newly designed seat clamp shim set for the Rover seat clamp. As you know, the pressure sensitive versions sometimes do not stay in place very well, especially in high heat locations. Also, if the seat clamp is over-tightened it creates point loads and does not allow the system to operate as designed. This can lead to slippage as well even in “low heat” geographic locations.

    The new design is a molded polypropelene version and will come as a set of four (2 for the sides, one for the top and one for the bottom wedge assembly of the seat clamp)."

    Kelli,

    Since it is obvious to TerraTrike that the original seat shims just do not do the job, will their be some kind of free replacement program for owners that have the faulty originals?
    8000 miles and counting...
  • Good question Doggy. I was just about to post my issue with the seat/clamp arrangement... do not have a seat slipping issue, but do have a slight rocking problem. Looks like my bushings have worn as the machine screws cannot be tightened any further.

    Only 650 miles on the Rover and bought it at the end of May.

    Love the Rover, just need a tighter seat. :)
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